>> HELLO, EVERYONE WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

> >> FOR THE THIRD DAY IN A ROW PALESTINIANS ARE KILLED ON THEIR WAY TO GET AID IN GAZA.

WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS THERE?

>> I REALLY WANT TO CHALLENGE THESE TRADITIONAL NOTIONS OF WHAT MAKES FOR GOOD LEADERSHIP.

> >> THE FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND TELLS CHRISTIANE WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE THE WORLD'S YOUNGEST FEMALE HEAD OF GOVERNMENT AND WHY SHE IS PUSHING FOR A DIFFERENT KIND OF POWER IN HER NEW MEMBER -- MEMOIR.

>> THE AMERICAN BODY IS STILL.

ONLY ABOUT 12% ARE METABOLICALLY HEALTHY.

> >> DIET, DRUGS, AND DOPAMINE.

WE SPEAK TO FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER DR. DAVID KESSLER ABOUT THE DANGERS OF OBESITY AND HOW HE SAYS IT CAN BE COMBATED.

> >> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY FROM ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS FAMILY CHARITABLE TRUST, MARK J. BLECHNER, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, SETON J. MELVIN, PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, TRAN --BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

UNCONSCIONABLE.

THAT IS HOW THE UNITED NATIONS HUMAN RIGHTS CHIEF DESCRIBES FATAL ATTACKS ON PALESTINIANS TRYING TO REACH AID IN GAZA.

THESE WERE THE SCENES NEAR A DISTRIBUTION SITE TODAY WERE GAZA HEALTH MINISTRY SAID ISRAELI FORCES OPENED FIRE.

AT LEAST 27 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED AND DOZENS INJURED.

IT'S THE THIRD DAY IN A ROW PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED ON THEIR WAY TO COLLECT CRITICALLY NEEDED AID WHICH IS RUN BY THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION.

THE ISRAELI MILITARY SAID FORCES OPENED FIRE MULTIPLE TIMES AFTER IDENTIFYING, QUOTE, SEVERAL SUSPECTS MOVING TOWARD THEM DEVIATING FROM DESIGNATED ACCESS ROUTE.

JEREMY DIAMOND IS IN JERUSALEM WITH MORE ON WHAT HAS HAPPENED.

THREE DAYS IN, DIFFERENT HEADLINES EACH DAY OF CHAOS AND DEATH.

TELL US ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TODAY.

>> Reporter: FOR THE THIRD DAY IN A ROW PEOPLE WERE GUNNED DOWN AS THEY WERE TRYING TO MAKE THEIR WAY TO THIS GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION SITE AND THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE GAZA STRIP.

TODAY NEARLY 30 PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN AN INCIDENT THE ISRAELI MILITARY ACKNOWLEDGES.

THE MILITARY ACKNOWLEDGING THEY DID INDEED OPENED FIRE ON INDIVIDUALS THEY CLAIMED WERE APPROACHING IN A SUSPICIOUS MANNER.

THEY SAID THEY FIRED WARNING SHOTS FIRST, BUT THE RESULT IS 27 PEOPLE KILLED ACCORDING TO THE PALESTINIAN MINISTRY OF HEALTH AND LOCAL HOSPITAL OFFICIALS INCLUDING A MOTHER WHO WAS TRYING TO FIND FOOD FOR HER SON.

I JUST WATCHED THE VIDEO OF HER SON CRYING OVER HER BODY AFTER SHE HAD TRIED TO GET FOOD FOR HIM.

WE KNOW THAT ON SUNDAY THERE WAS ANOTHER DEADLY INCIDENT.

31 KILLED ACCORDING TO THOSE SAME HEALTH AUTHORITIES.

IN THAT INCIDENT THE ISRAELI MILITARY DID NOT OUTRIGHT ACKNOWLEDGE ALTHOUGH AN OFFICIAL DID TELL US THAT FORCES DID FIRE ON INDIVIDUALS ABOUT ONE KILOMETER AWAY FROM THE LOCATION WHERE THE ATTACK ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

ALL OF THIS RACING SERIOUS NEW CONCERNS ABOUT THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION, THE WAY IT IS OPERATING IN TERMS OF REQUIRING PALESTINIANS TO WALK SOMETIMES MILES THROUGH WHAT ARE NOW ISRAELI MILITARY DECLARED COMBAT ZONES AND THROUGH THEIR LINES.

>> SO WHO IS RUNNING SECURITY AROUND THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FUND IN THESE DISTRIBUTION SITES?

I HAD INITIALLY THOUGHT IT WAS PRIVATE CONTRACTORS THAT WERE HIRED TO MAINTAIN SECURITY.

THEN YOU HAVE THE IDF THERE AS WELL.

HOW IS THIS WORKING IF YOU COULD JUST WALK US THROUGH WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AT THESE SITES?

>> Reporter: THERE ARE INDEED AMERICAN MILITARY SECURITY CONTRACTORS.

MANY ARE VETERANS.

THEY ARE IN CHARGE OF THE EIGHT SITE ITSELF AND THE IMMEDIATE AREA.

IF YOU HAVE SEEN SOME IMAGES THEY HAVE ERECTED SANDWORMS AROUND THE AREA.

THEY HAVE PUT TENSES UP TO TRY TO MANAGE THE FLOW OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE A DAY COMING TO THESE SITES.

OUTSIDE OF THESE A DISTRIBUTION SITES THAT IS STILL TERRITORY CONTROLLED BY THE ISRAELI MILITARY.

WE HAVE SEEN SEVERAL VIDEOS THAT SHOW TANKS OPERATING IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THESE SITES.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION ITSELF HAS TOLD PEOPLE TO USE THIS COASTAL STREET TO GET TO THIS SITE WHILE ALSO WARNING THAT BEFORE CERTAIN HOURS THE ISRAELI MILITARY WOULD BE OPERATING IN THE AREA AS WELL.

IT IS CLEAR THAT THE MILITARY IS OPERATING IN THIS AREA.

THEY HAVE DECLARED MUCH OF THIS ZONE A DANGEROUS COMBAT ZONE WHERE THEY HAVE TOLD PALESTINIANS TO EVACUATE FROM.

AT THE SAME TIME, THEY ARE COORDINATING WITH THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION TO HAVE PALESTINIANS COME TO THE AREA.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HUMANITARIAN OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN WARNING ABOUT FOR WEEKS.

THEY HAVE SAID THIS MECHANISM WOULD INCREASE THE RISKS FOR PALESTINIANS BECAUSE OF THE DISTANCES THEY WOULD HAVE TO WALK.

BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE TO LIKE THROUGH DANGEROUS COMBAT ZONES AND THAT IS WHY THEY WERE CALLING FOR THE OLD MODEL IN WHICH YOU WOULD SEE DOZENS OF SITES IN CLOSER PROXIMITY TO WHERE PEOPLE LIVE THAT WOULD NOT REQUIRE THESE DANGEROUS JOURNEYS.

>> HOW MANY OF THESE ARE FUNCTIONING RIGHT NOW?

>> Reporter: THEY SAID THEY WOULD ESTABLISH FOUR TO START WITH.

IT SEEMS ALL FOUR HAVE BEEN OPERATIONAL AT SOME POINT.

IN THE LAST DAYS WE HAVE ONLY SEEN THIS ONE THAT HAS BEEN OPERATIONAL.

THAT IS PART OF WHY YOU ARE SEEING THIS ENORMOUS CROWDS OF PEOPLE SOMETIMES SHOWING UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT HOURS BEFORE THEY OPEN BECAUSE THEY ARE TRYING TO GET AID.

THEY'VE HAD THE EXPERIENCE TOO MANY TIMES BEFORE GETTING TO THESE SITES WHEN IT HAS ALREADY RUN DRY.

>> INC. YOU.

FOR MORE ON THE DESPERATE NEED FOR AID IN GAZA AND THE CONTROVERSIAL NEW OPERATION THERE I AM JOINED BY THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF SAVE THE CHILDREN U. S. IN WASHINGTON, D. C. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME.

JUST GIVEN THE HEADLINES, CHAOS AND CONFUSION THAT HAS ENSUED SINCE THIS GAZA HUMANITARIAN FUND HAS STARTED DISTRIBUTE IN AID, JUST GIVE US YOUR THOUGHTS AND WHAT YOU ARE HEARING FROM THOSE ON THE GROUND FROM YOUR TEAM ABOUT WHAT THESE LAST EIGHT DAYS HAVE BEEN LIKE PICK IT HAS BEEN EIGHT DAYS THAT THIS HUMANITARIAN FUND HAS BEEN OPERATIONAL.

>> THAT IS RIGHT.

LET'S ALSO REMIND OURSELVES IT HAS BEEN SINCE MARCH 2 THAT WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANY SUPPLIES COME INTO GAZA AT ALL.

JUST TO GET A SENSE OF THE LEVEL OF SCARCITY AND DESPERATION THERE FOR THE POPULATION OF GAZA WHO ARE ESSENTIALLY WANTING FOR EVERYTHING.

ASIC HEALTHCARE, CLEAN WATER, FOOD, BABY MILK, ET CETERA FOR WELL OVER 80 DAYS.

SO THAT IS THE STARTING POSITION.

THESE LAST EIGHT DAYS WE ARE WATCHING IN ABJECT HORROR.

WE HAVE SAID ALL ALONG THAT THIS NEW MECHANISM WAS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE, WAS UNTESTED AND WOEFULLY INEFFICIENT IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF SITES AND REALLY DOES NOT ADDRESS ALL OF THE ISSUES, PARTICULARLY FOR CHILDREN AND VULNERABLE POPULATION TO ADDRESS THEIR NEEDS.

THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT FOOD BOXES THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO CARRY FOR MILES AND MILES ON THEIR SHOULDERS THAT YOU THEN STILL NEED CLEAN WATER FOR TO PREPARE BEFORE YOU HAVE ANY FOOD.

IT DOES NOT ADDRESS BASIC HEALTHCARE NEEDS.

IT DOES NOT ADDRESS CARE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN, IT DOES NOT ADDRESS CARE FOR INFANTS AND YOUNG CHILDREN.

IT DOES NOT ADDRESS MALNUTRITION TREATMENT FOR SEVERELY MALNOURISHED CHILDREN AT THAT STORE.

IT'S WOEFULLY INADEQUATE, BADLY EXECUTED AND DOING EVEN MORE HARM TO A POPULATION THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN THROUGH SO MUCH.

>> THERE IS STILL SO MUCH UNCERTAINTY ABOUT WHO IS RUNNING THE HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION.

ALMOST DAILY WE ARE HEARING NEW HEADLINES.

THE FOUNDER LEFT ON DAY ONE OF THIS DISTRIBUTION AND NOW THE WASHINGTON POST IS REPORTING THAT THE CONSULTING GROUP THAT HELPED DESIGN THE OPERATION HAS WITHDRAWN FROM THE TEAM AS WELL.

I AM JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF DISTRUST BETWEEN ISRAEL, THE FOUNDATION AND THE UNITED NATIONS.

DID ANYONE REACH OUT AND SOLICIT ADVICE FROM YOU FROM SAVE THE CHILDREN BEFORE LAUNCHING?

TO GET A SENSE OF WHAT THIS WOULD BE LIKE?

>> YOU DESCRIBE IT WELL.

THE CHAOS TELLS YOU EVERYTHING AROUND WHO IS RUNNING IT, WHO'S IN CHARGE, WHO HELPED DESIGN AND WHO DID NOT HELP DESIGN, WHO WAS ON THE BOARD OF THE FOUNDATION.

ALL HUMANITARIAN AGENCIES WHO HAVE BEEN OPERATIONAL IN GAZA MOST OF THE TIME FOR MANY DECADES HAVE WEIGHED IN WHEN FIRST IDEAS OF THIS PLAN A FEW MONTHS AGO.

WE IDENTIFIED EXACTLY THE ISSUES THAT WE SAW.

IT SEEMED TO BE A MILITARY STATION OF AID.

IT SEEMS REALLY RISKY FOR PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY WALK FOR MILES TO PICK UP A BOX.

IT DOES NOT ADDRESS ALL OF THE NEEDS --IT DOES NOT ADDRESS ALL OF THE EIGHT SUPPLIES THAT NEED TO BE GIVEN TO THE POPULATION.

AND THE WHOLE SUPPLY CHAIN AND PROTOCOLS THAT WE ASK FOR, STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES DID NOT SEEM TO BE IN PLACE.

WE HAVE WEIGHED IN WITH OUR CONCERNS.

SOMETIMES WE WERE ASKED AND SOMETIMES WE GET THEM PROACTIVELY.

WE HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR FROM THE START THAT WE DID NOT FEEL THAT THIS WAS A MECHANISM THAT WOULD ACTUALLY DELIVER QUALITY HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE AT SCALE.

>> WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST CONCERNS YOU HAVE NOW SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO CHILDREN?

>> WE SEE ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF CHILDREN BEING AT RISK OF STARVATION.

THE LATEST NUMBERS THERE AS WE KNOW FOR OVER 80 DAYS NOTHING HAS BEEN ABLE TO GET IN.

THERE IS ESSENTIALLY A WANT FOR EVERYTHING BUT WE ARE PARTICULARLY CONCERNED ABOUT YOUNG CHILDREN STARVING TO DEATH.

WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT CHILDREN BEING HURT IN SOME OF THE ACTIVITY ON THE GROUND.

THEY NEED HEALTHCARE.

THEY NEED VACCINES AND IMMUNIZATION.

THEY NEED TREATMENT FOR MALNUTRITION.

THEY NEED TREATMENT FOR WOUNDS, FROM SHELLING INJURIES ET CETERA ABOVE ALL, THEY NEED THE FIGHTING TO STOP.

WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THE SITUATION WE HAD BEFORE MARCH 2 WHICH WAS A CEASE-FIRE.

IT WAS GIVING GATES OPEN.

HUMANITARIAN SUPPLIES, 500 TRUCKS PER DAY.

A MIX OF COMMERCIAL AND HUMANITARIAN SUPPLIES.

WE WERE ABLE TO TREAT PEOPLE IN COMMUNITIES CLOSE TO WHERE THEY WERE LIVING AND WE WERE ABLE TO FIND KIDS THAT NEEDED THE MOST URGENT CARE.

THE MECHANISMS THAT WERE THERE WERE WORKING AT SCALE.

WE WERE ABLE TO DO IT.

EVERYBODY ELSE OPERATING IN GAZA WAS ABLE TO DELIVER ASSISTANCE WITH QUALITY AND CARE.

THAT IS CURRENTLY NOT THE SITUATION AT ALL.

>> WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WERE IN GAZA AND WHAT DID YOU SEE THAT?

>> I WAS THERE LATE MARCH LAST YEAR.

THEN IT WAS PRETTY BAD AT THE TIME.

WE ARE STILL TREATING CHILDREN AND WOMEN EVERY DAY, NOTWITHSTANDING THE HORRENDOUS CIRCUMSTANCES.

IT WAS BAD THEN.

I SAW PEOPLE, 600 PEOPLE TO WANT A MAKESHIFT TOILET.

THERE WAS NO CLEAN WATER.

THERE WAS LACK OF FOOD.

THERE WAS COMPLETELY TRAUMATIZED COMMUNITIES.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS AS BAD AS IT HAD GOT AND NOW WE ARE IN A POSITION WHERE IT IS EVEN WORSE.

>> I'M SURE YOU ARE AWARE ISRAEL IS ACCUSING HAMAS OF STEALING THE FOOD AND HOARDING IT FOR ITSELF AND KILLING CIVILIANS.

THEY SAY THAT THE HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION IS A SYSTEM TO PREVENT THAT.

THE FORMER PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN QUITE ACTIVE ON SOCIAL MEDIA ABOUT THIS.

HERE IS WHAT HE WROTE ON X. HAMAS IS UNDER PRESSURE DUE TO THE FOOD DISTRIBUTION MANAGED BY AN AMERICAN COMPANY AND TRYING TO SABOTAGE IT.

HAMAS WANTS TO CONTROL THE FOOD AND THE PEOPLE.

ISRAEL IS DENYING THIS CONTROL.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THIS ARGUMENT?

>> THAT IS ONE REALITY THAT IS BEING PUT FORWARD.

LET ME BE VERY CLEAR.

SAVE THE CHILDREN, MOST OF OUR ORGANIZATIONS WE SPEAK TO ON THE GROUND HAVE NOT SEEN THAT LEVEL OF DIVERSION AT ALL.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THAT WHATSOEVER.

HAS THERE BEEN LOOTING OF TRUCKS AND AGE?

YES.

IF YOU CREATE A SITUATION WHERE IT IS COMPLETELY DESPERATE POPULATION AND TO RESTRICT THE SUPPLIES THAT COME COME IN OF COURSE THERE WILL BE LOOTING.

AT THE SAME TIME, IT IS ALWAYS IN A WAR ZONE.

WE NOW HAVE CRIMINAL GANGS OPERATING, TRYING TO PROFIT FROM THIS WAR.

WE ARE ACUTELY AWARE OF THAT RISK.

HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATIONS ARE DEALING WITH RISK LIKE THIS AND OTHER AREAS AROUND THE WORLD.

THIS IS NOTHING THAT DIFFERENT.

WE WERE ABLE TO DO IT BECAUSE WE HAVE PROTOCOLS IN PLACE TO AVOID THAT, TO MITIGATE AGAINST THAT.

IF IT DOES HAPPEN WE INVESTIGATE AND REPORT AND WE ARE TRANSPARENT ABOUT THOSE RISKS.

AT THE MOMENT YOU CREATE THESE SITES WHERE THERE IS SOME LEVEL OF A DRIPPING IN.

OF COURSE WE WILL HAVE AN INCREASED RISK OF LOOTING.

THEN WE WILL HAVE PEOPLE WALKING ACROSS FOR MILES WITH THEIR BOXES CREATING EVEN MORE RISK OF LOOTING OR POSSIBLY DIVERSION AS WELL.

I DO NOT SEE HOW THIS MECHANISM PREVENTS THE VERY RISK PEOPLE SAY IS SIGNIFICANT OF WHICH WE HAVE SEEN NO EVIDENCE.

>> DO WE KNOW THE STATUS OF ANY AS IT RELATES TO CHILDREN, MEDICAL AID BEING ABLE TO COME IN AND TREAT THOSE IN HOSPITALS.

>> IT IS VERY LIMITED.

I DID HEAR OF ONE OR TWO TRUCKS BEING ABLE TO GET IN.

NOT FROM SAVE THE CHILDREN BUT FROM A PARTNER ORGANIZATION.

I THINK THE TRUCK WAS LOOTED BECAUSE OF THE DESPERATION.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS THAT SUPPLIES ARE REALLY DWINDLING.

INCLUDING FOR SAVE THE CHILDREN.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THERAPEUTIC TREATMENT FOR MALNUTRITION.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ANESTHETICS.

PAINKILLERS, ANTIBIOTICS.

BASIC ALL KINDS OF SUPPLIES.

EVERYTHING IS RUNNING OUT AND THAT WILL INCREASE THE DESPERATION.

LET ME COME --REPEAT, COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY DEATH.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE WILL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

I APPRECIATE THE TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> NEXT, TO A DIFFERENT KIND OF LEADERSHIP.

WHEN SHE UNEXPECTEDLY CAME TO POWER AND 2018, JACINDA ARDERN SEEMS LIKE A BREATH OF FRESH AIR.

SHE BECAME THE YOUNGEST FEMALE HEAD OF GOVERNMENT.

HER TIME IN OFFICE COLLIDED WITH TRAGEDY WHEN A GUNMAN KILLED DOZENS OF WORSHIPERS.

HER RESPONSE WAS EMBLEMATIC OF HER PHILOSOPHY OF EMPATHY AND KINDNESS.

THE PHILOSOPHY THAT IS AT THE CENTER OF HER NEW MEMOIR, A DIFFERENT KIND OF POWER.

IT RELEASES TODAY JUST AHEAD OF A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT HER TIME IN OFFICE.

SHE RECENTLY SPOKE ABOUT WHAT IT TOOK TO LEAVE HER COUNTRY AND THE LESSONS SHE LEARNED.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

A PLEASURE TO SPEAK WITH YOU.

>> IT HAS BEEN SO LONG.

YOU HAVE WRITTEN A MEMOIR.

THERE'S A DOCUMENTARY AT ABOUT YOU.

IT'S CALLED A DIFFERENT KIND OF POWER.

WHAT IS YOUR DIFFERENT KIND OF POWER?

>> I HAVE SPENT THE LAST TWO YEARS TEACHING, WRITING, REFLECTING.

INITIALLY I DID NOT HAVE AN INTENTION TO WRITE A MEMOIR UNTIL THERE WERE THOSE THAT PUSHED ME A LITTLE HARDER.

SHARING A LITTLE BIT MORE OF AN INSIGHT INTO HOW IT FEELS TO LEAD.

IF I WAS GOING TO WRITE A BOOK LIKE THAT ALSO SHARING HOW IT FEELS TO LEAD WHEN YOU DO SEE YOURSELF AS SOMEBODY QUITE FOCUSED ON EMPATHY, KINDNESS, COMPASSION.

IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT WE TALK A LOT ABOUT DIFFERENT TYPES OF LEADERSHIP.

NOT OFTEN DO WE TALK ABOUT THE ALTERNATIVES FROM WHAT WE SEE CURRENTLY.

AS MUCH AS I HAVE ENJOYED MY QUIET TIME BEING OUT OF THE MEDIA, I THINK IT IS TIME TO START TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THOSE ALTERNATIVE STYLES.

>> I WAS GOING TO GET MORE DEEPLY INTO EMPATHY, KINDNESS, ET CETERA.

YOU JUST BROUGHT IT UP.

I HEARD YOUR SPEECH TO THE YALE GRADUATING CLASS.

I WAS STRUCK BY HOW YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW EMPATHY IS NOT A WEAKNESS.

IT IS NOT JUST A FEMALE THING.

EMPATHY IS A BASIC VALUE FOR LEADERSHIP EXPAND ON THAT FOR ME.

>> I DO SEE IT THAT WAY.

THERE IS A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT OVER TIME I THINK I PERSONALLY HAVE FELT WERE WEAKNESSES IN LEADERSHIP.

CERTAINLY, WE BECOME CLIMATE TIES TO THE IDEA THAT EMPATHY AND LEADERSHIP MUST DENOTE WEAKNESS.

ACTUALLY IT IS A FORM OF PEOPLE-BASED POLICYMAKING.

PEOPLE BASED LEADERSHIP.

WHEN YOU ARE MOTIVATED BY ACTING ON BEHALF OF YOUR COMMUNITY AND TRYING TO FIX PROBLEMS THAT PEOPLE ARE FACING IT MAKES YOU MORE DECISIVE.

I TALK OFTEN ALSO ABOUT THE IDEA OF A CONFIDENCE GAME.

WE PROBABLY HAVE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM LEADERSHIP BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE THEY HAVE WHAT IT TAKES.

I CERTAINLY PUT MYSELF IN THAT CATEGORY, BUT BY BRINGING THAT HUMILITY TO A JOB ALSO MEANS YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE EXTRAORDINARILY PREPARED, ARE LIKELY TO SEEK THE ADVICE OF OTHERS, BRING EXPERTS THAT CAN SUPPORT YOUR WORK.

THAT CAN BE A STRENGTH IN LEADERSHIP.

I WANT TO CHALLENGE THESE TRADITIONAL NOTIONS OF WHAT MAKES FOR GOOD LEADERSHIP.

AGAIN, PARTICULARLY IN THESE TIMES THAT WE HAVE A VIEW THAT THERE IS NO PLACE FOR KINDNESS AND POLITICS BECAUSE IT IS CHARACTERIZED AS WEAKNESS.

>> YOU OBVIOUSLY LEARNED THIS FROM YOUR EARLY CHILDHOOD WHICH YOU WRITE ABOUT IN YOUR BOOK.

YOU TALK ABOUT GROWING UP IN A PLACE WHICH WAS A CONSERVATIVE IT IF RURAL PART OF NEW ZEALAND.

WHAT DID YOU WITNESS THERE?

WHAT DID YOU INTERNALIZE AS A CHILD THAT MAY HAVE LED TO BEING A LEADER BUT ALSO HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT YOU AND A LEADER?

>> TWO REALLY DISTINCT EXPERIENCES.

I SPENT MY EARLY YEARS IN A SMALL TOWN.

THAT WAS IN THE 1980S WHEN NEW ZEALAND WENT THROUGH SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC REFORM.

AS A CHILD I WAS NOT WALKING AROUND THE STREETS MUTTERING ABOUT DEREGULATION.

I RATHER JUST SAW WHAT THE KIDS AROUND ME DID NOT HAVE I SAW POVERTY AND INEQUALITY.

I DO THINK IT WAS A PLACE THAT REALLY MADE ME MY OWN WAY POLITICAL.

THE PLACE I SPENT MOST OF MY LIFE WAS A SMALL, RURAL TOWN THAT WAS PREDOMINANTLY CONSERVATIVE.

I CREDIT THAT PLACE FOR IN SOME WAY BE SURE THAT I, I ALWAYS LIKED TO ENGAGE IN A GOOD DEBATE BUT I ALSO LIKE TO TRY TO SEE THE WORLD FROM A MULTITUDE OF PERSPECTIVES.

SO I AM A PROGRESSIVE BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GET US BACK TO A PLACE WHERE WE WERE ABLE TO RESPECT DIFFERENT IDEAS, DEBATE DIFFERENT IDEAS RESPECTFULLY.

WE DID NOT DESCEND INTO VIOLENCE AND POLITICAL DEBATE.

WE AREN'T SO ENTRENCHED WE CANNOT SEE ANOTHER PERSON'S PERSPECTIVE.

TWO REALLY IMPORTANT REASONS FOR ME GOING INTO POLITICS.

NOT NECESSARILY DID I SEE MYSELF IN THOSE TIMES AS THAT WOULD BE THE PLACE I WOULD END UP BUT NO DOUBT THEY WERE IMPORTANT.

>> YOU JUST MENTIONED, YES, I AM A PROGRESSIVE.

PROGRESSIVE POLITICS ARE UNDER FULL-SCALE ASSAULT IN THE UNITED STATES AND PARTS OF EUROPE AS WELL.

DO YOU SEE A FUTURE FOR PROGRESSIVE POLITICS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I SEE A PLACE ALSO AS I HAVE TALKED ABOUT FOR EMPATHETIC LEADERSHIP.

TWO REASONS WHY.

I RUN NOW A FELLOWSHIP ON EMPATHETIC LEADERSHIP.

OUR FIRST COHORT WERE POLITICIANS OUT OF EUROPE.

THERE ARE POLITICAL LEADERS THAT BELIEVE THAT THEY SHOULD FOCUS ON THE POLITICS AND NOT THE PERSONAL AND THEY DO POLITICS DIFFERENTLY BUT THEY FOCUS ON THOSE INDIVIDUALS HAVE SHIFTED.

THAT IS WHY I LIKE TO SPOTLIGHT IT.

THE SECOND POINT, WE HAVE HAD TWO MAJOR ELECTIONS IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD.

AUSTRALIA THE ELECTION OF THE LABOR PRIME MINISTER AND IN CANADA WITH MARK CARNEY.

BOTH PRIME MINISTERS ON THE ELECTION NIGHT ON THE CRITICAL VICTORY NIGHT SPEECHES REFERENCING THE IMPORTANCE OF KINDNESS.

THESE ARE NOT VALUES PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN UP ON SEEKING FROM POLITICIANS.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE BACK AT THE FOREFRONT AND DEMONSTRATING HOW THEY CAN SUCCESSFULLY DELIVER FOR PEOPLE WHEN THEY NEED IT.

>> I ALSO READ, AND I HAD NO IDEA, YOU WERE BROUGHT UP MORMON.

HOW DID THAT AFFECT YOU AND HOW COME YOU LEFT THE CHURCH?

>> WHERE I GREW UP IT WAS SMALLER.

IT WAS A MEMBERSHIP OF ABOUT 50.

I WAS PROBABLY THE ONLY PROGRESSIVE AND MORMON IN THE VILLAGE AS IT WERE.

THERE ARE SEVERAL THOUSAND IN THE ADJOINING CITY.

FOR ME, IT WAS AN UP RINGING.

IT WAS MY COMMUNITY.

IT WAS AN UP --UPBRINGING THAT WAS VERY SORRY IF --SERVICE ORIENTED.

THAT IS A VALUE THAT HAS STAYED WITH ME.

I DID STRUGGLE WITH THE CLASH BETWEEN THE PART OF MY FAITH THAT HAD A PARTICULAR VIEW ON HOMOSEXUALITY.

YET HERE I WAS CAMPAIGNING FOR CIVIL UNIONS IN NEW ZEALAND.

THERE CAME A POINT WHERE I HAD TO RECONCILE THAT CLASH OF VALUES.

IN WRITING THE BOOK, I DID NOT THINK I WOULD FIND IT AS DIFFICULT TO WRITE ABOUT AS I DID IN PART PROBABLY BECAUSE IT WAS A DECISION THAT I MADE SEVERAL DECADES AGO AND I PUT IT IN A LITTLE BOX AND TUCKED IT AWAY.

YOU BRING ALL OF THOSE THINGS OUT AND YOU PUT THEM ON A PAGE, PARTICULARLY IF YOU ARE INTENT ON SHARING A GENUINE AND INTIMATE WAY WHAT WE DO ON A PARTICULAR PATH.

AND WHY IT IS IMPORTANT FOR OTHER PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE A SIMILAR JOURNEY SHOULD TAKE A PATH OF LEADERSHIP AS WELL.

>> I JUST WANT TO DRILL DOWN A LITTLE BIT ON WHAT YOU WRITE A LOT ABOUT AND SPEAK A LOT ABOUT.

THE IDEA OF ANXIETY AND IMPOSTER SYNDROME.

PEOPLE WHO LOOK AT PEOPLE LIKE YOU DO NOT THINK YOU COULD POSSIBLY HAVE IMPOSTER SYNDROME.

YOU SAY, MY INSISTENCE ON OVER PREPARING AND THE TENDENCY TO IMAGINE EVERY WORST-CASE AREA MEANT I COULD ENVISION EVERY POSSIBLE ARGUMENT.

UNTIL NOW MY NEAR CONSTANT WE HAD FELT DEBILITATING.

SUDDENLY IT FELT LIKE A SUPERPOWER.

THAT MUST BE AN AMAZING REALIZATION, A MAJOR PIVOTAL POINT FOR YOUR'S.

>> I THINK PROBABLY WHAT I WOULD CONCLUDE BECAUSE PEOPLE ASK ME ALL THE TIME, DO YOU JUST EVENTUALLY GET OVER THAT IF YOU ARE PRIME MINISTER FOR FIVE YEARS YOU STOP HAVING THAT CONFIDENCE GAP AT SOME POINT.

THERE IS NO SILVER BULLET OR MAGIC REMEDY TO REMOVE IT, BUT PERHAPS WE SHOULD REFRAME IT.

IF IT DOES BRING A LITTLE HUMILITY AND IT DOES MEAN YOU PREPARE AND BRINGING OTHERS TO SUPPORT YOUR DECISION-MAKING IS AN THAT WHAT WE WANT?

I THINK ONE OF THE FIRST TIMES I REFLECTED ON THE FACT THAT THERE ARE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT MIGHT HAVE THAT VIEW OF THEMSELVES WHO DON'T OFTEN SPEAK TO IT IS WHEN I HEAR, FOR INSTANCE, OR SEE MELINDA FRENCH GATES IN HER MEMOIR OR HER RECENT BOOK TALKS ABOUT ONE PARTICULAR MEETING WHERE SHE FOUND HER'S OFF JUST PREPARING AND PREPARING, GOING OVER SCREEDS OF MATERIAL.

IT WAS ONLY AFTER THE FACT THAT SHE DECIDED SHE SHOULD NOT TREAT EVERY MEETING AS IF IT WERE A TEST AS TO WHETHER OR NOT SHE SHOULD EITHER.

I DO THINK WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT IT MORE.

THOSE THAT DO SO MIGHT SELF EXCLUDE BECAUSE OF THAT CONFIDENCE MIGHT BE ENCOURAGED TO COME FORWARD.

>> WAS PART OF THIS ISSUE FOR YOU BEING A WOMAN EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE NOT THE FIRST FEMALE PRIME MINISTER IN YOUR COUNTRY?

TALK ABOUT PROGRESS.

WAS IT HARD BEING A WOMAN IN LEADERSHIP?

>> I CONSIDER MYSELF INCREDIBLY LUCKY.

THERE WERE THESE OTHER REMARKABLE WOMEN WHO CARVED A PAST.

THERE WAS NO QUESTION IN MY MIND IT MADE THE JOURNEY BECAUSE IT WAS WELL-TRAVELED.

IT MADE THE JOURNEY IN MANY WAYS EASIER FOR ME.

IT MEANT I DID NOT GROW UP BELIEVING THAT MY GENDER MEANT I COULD NOT BE IN POLITICS OR LEADERSHIP.

THAT IN ITSELF IS A GIFT.

I DID GROW UP BELIEVING MY CHARACTER MIGHT BE A PROBLEM AND THE FACT THAT I WAS THIN- SKINNED DID NOT MAKE ME WELL- PLACED FOR POLITICS.

AGAIN, REALLY PUTTING IT TO THE TEST AND BY ULTIMATELY SHOWING THAT WE OFTEN HIT FAR MORE RESILIENCE AND ARE CAPABLE OF FAR MORE THAN WE GIVE OURSELVES CREDIT FOR.

WE DON'T PUT OURSELVES IN THOSE POSITIONS OFTEN TO TEST IT.

I FIND MYSELF IN LEADERSHIP THROUGH A SERIES OF REMARKABLE EVENTS.

IT WAS NOT A PATH THAT I SIT DOWN DELIBERATELY.

MY BOSS QUIT AND NOMINATED ME.

WERE IT NOT FOR THE CIRCUMSTANCES I'M NOT SURE I WOULD HAVE BECOME PRIME MINISTER.

I AM CERTAINLY GLAD I DID AND NOW I FEEL I RESPONSIBILITY TO SHARE SOME OF THOSE LEARNINGS.

>> DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE COME A BIT OF A WAY FROM WHAT YOU SAID WHEN YOU DID ACTUALLY RESIGN THE JOB.

>> I KNOW WHAT THE JOB TAKES.

I KNOW THAT I NO LONGER HAVE ENOUGH IN THE TANK TO DO IT JUSTICE.

>> WHAT DID THAT MEAN?

MANY PEOPLE PUT THEIR OWN IDEAS ON THAT.

>> I FULLY EXPECTED THAT.

IT IS HUMAN NATURE YOU LOOK FOR THE ONE THING.

I DID NOT HAVE ONE REASON OTHER THAN TO SAY THAT THE FIVE YEARS THAT PRECEDED MY DEPARTURE CUMULATIVELY MEAN THAT I CAME TO A POINT WHERE I WAS HAVING TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT RUNNING FOR THE NEXT ELECTION.

THAT MEANT COMMITTING FOR ANOTHER FOUR YEARS.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT WERE IMPORTANT TO ME IN LEADERSHIP, MAINTAINING YOUR CURIOSITY AND NOT BEING DEFENSIVE, HAVING ENOUGH FOR THE INEVITABLE POINT WHERE THERE MIGHT BE ANOTHER CRISIS.

I KNEW THAT THOSE THINGS WERE DEPLETING.

THAT IT FELT TO ME THAT RESPONSIBILITY HAD BROUGHT ME INTO THE JOB AND MY SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY NEEDED TO TAKE ME OUT OF IT.

I MISS A LOT ABOUT POLITICS, BUT I DON'T REGRET THE DECISION.

I TRY AND FOR THE FIRST TIME PUT A LOT MORE DETAIL AROUND THAT.

IT WAS A LONELY DECISION.

I PUT IT ON A PAGE TO DO THE BEST I COULD TO EXPLAIN.

WHAT I KNOW DID NOT MAKE SENSE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> YOU DID A LOT OF THINGS AND HAD A LOT OF SUCCESSES.

SOMETHING THAT STOOD OUT, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT EMPATHY AND KINDNESS AND INCLUSION WAS WHEN YOU HAVE THAT TERRORIST ATTACK.

DOZENS OF MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY WERE KILLED.

YOU IMMEDIATELY WENT DOWN THERE AND DRESSED IN RESPECTFUL, TRADITIONAL DRESS AND YOU HUGGED PEOPLE.

PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD REALLY RESPONDED TO THAT.

THEN I MET YOU AFTERWARDS.

I ASKED YOU ABOUT THE POLICY THAT EMANATED FROM THAT.

YOU WERE VERY PROUD THAT MERELY 28 DAYS LATER YOUR GOVERNMENT PASSED VERY IMPORTANT LEGISLATION TO BAN THE KIND OF WEAPONS.

I WILL PLAY THIS LITTLE BIT FROM OUR INTERVIEW.

>> I WONDER IF YOU THINK OTHER COUNTRIES CAN LEARN FROM WHAT YOU DID AND WHAT AUSTRALIA DID AFTER THEIR MASSACRE.

A CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT PASSED TOUGH GUN LAWS.

>> TO BE HONEST WITH YOU I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE UNITED STATES.

>> I BRING THAT UP BECAUSE YOU DID THINGS AND SO DID AUSTRALIA AND SO DID BRITAIN AFTER THEIR TERRIBLE MASS MURDER.

THE UNITED STATES WHERE YOU'VE SPENT THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, CANNOT GET ITSELF INTO THAT POSITION ANYMORE.

HAVE YOU UNDERSTOOD AMERICA ANY BETTER IN THOSE YEARS THAT YOU HAVE IN THERE?

>> I OFTEN DESCRIBE MYSELF AS AN OBSERVER, I'M VERY LUCKY TO HAVE HAD SOME TIME HERE.

AN OBSERVER ALL THE SAME.

AGAIN, IT IS VERY HARD AS AN OBSERVER TO UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE HISTORY, THE POLITICS, THE CULTURE.

ALL I KNOW IS THAT WHEN YOU EXPERIENCE TRAGEDY AND CRISIS, IT ASKS FOR CHANGE.

IT CALLS FOR CHANGE.

IT KEEPS CALLING.

SO I AM NOT A LEGISLATOR HERE.

I WILL NOT UNDERSTAND THE INTRICACIES OF THE SYSTEM OR THE HISTORY OF THE POLITICS.

I DO UNDERSTAND CRISIS.

I KNOW THAT IS WHAT IT KEEPS CALLING FOR.

>> I WANT TO END WITH A PERSONAL NOTE.

THE DOCUMENTARY IS CALLED PRIME MINISTER BUT IS VERY PERSONAL.

I WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE CLIP.

IT FEATURES YOURSELF AND YOUR DAUGHTER AT YOUR 40th BIRTHDAY.

THIS IS FROM THE DOCUMENTARY.

>> THANK YOU FOR ALWAYS SUPPORTING ME.

WHEN SHE SEES ME PICK THIS UP SHE SAYS, BYE-BYE.

SEE YOU TOMORROW.

>> HELLO AGAIN.

>> I JUST WANTED TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REFLECT BACK ON THAT TERM AS A PRIME MINISTER.

>> I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO SUM IT UP.

EVERYTHING ABOUT IT WAS UNEXPECTED.

IT AMAZES ME THAT THE THINGS YOU CAMPAIGN ON CAN SOMETIMES BECOME THE MOST IRRELEVANT THING YOU WILL BE DOING.

>> IT IS SO BEAUTIFUL.

I MET YOU IN NEW YORK WHEN YOU BROUGHT THE BABY THAT WAS AN AND VENT TO YOUR FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

IT IS SO PERSONAL.

I THINK YOUR HUSBAND HAD QUITE A LOT TO DO WITH PARTS OF THE FOOTAGE IN THE DOCUMENTARY.

>> HE IS A BROADCASTER.

WHEN I BECAME AN EXPECTED LEADER OF THE LABOR PARTY WITHOUT ANY PLAN IN MIND.

IN HIS MIND HE JUST THOUGHT THIS FEELS LIKE HISTORY.

I SHOULD CAPTURE THAT.

THERE'S NO ONE ELSE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CAPTURE IT.

NOBODY ELSE WOULD FILL ME IN IN MY PAJAMAS OR THOSE REALLY DIFFICULT MOMENTS.

IN MANY WAYS IT IS A SIMILAR HOPE THAT WE CAN RE-HUMANIZE ONE ANOTHER.

THAT WE CAN FOCUS AGAIN ON THOSE THINGS THAT MATTER THE MOST AND ARE IMPORTANT.

THAT CERTAINLY AS A POLITICIAN MYSELF I WAS NOT PERFECT.

I MADE MISTAKES, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE EVERY DAY JUST DOING THEIR BEST.

PERHAPS THAT IS A SIMPLE MESSAGE THAT THIS FILM IS SHARING.

>> IT IS REALLY INTERESTING STUFF.

FOR YOU TO BE PUTTING A SPOTLIGHT ON A DIFFERENT KIND OF LEADERSHIP IS SUPER IMPORTANT AT THIS TIME.

JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> PRIME MINISTER IS OUT IN THEATERS ACROSS THE U. S. ON JUNE 13.

260 MILLION.

THAT'S HOW MANY AMERICANS ARE PREDICTED TO BE OVERWEIGHT OR OBESE BY 2050.

IT'S A DIRE WARNING, BUT CAN DRUGS OFFER A WAY OUT?

DOES A LACK OF REGULATION MEAN THEY COULD CAUSE MORE HARM THAN GOOD?

DR. DAVID KESSLER IS A FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER WHO WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN ENACTING TOUGH TO BACK YOUR REGULATIONS AND LET THE COVID RESPONSE.

HE JOINS TO DISCUSS HIS NEW BOOK ON THE OBESITY CRISIS.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOUR NEW BOOK IS TITLED DIET, DRUGS, AND OPENING.

THE NEW SCIENCE AND ACHIEVING A HEAVYWEIGHT.

YOU ARE LOOKING HOLISTICALLY AT NUTRITION AND WEIGHT LOSS.

WHY DID YOU FEEL THE NEED TO WRITE THIS BOOK RIGHT NOW?

>> THE AMERICAN BODY IS STILL.

ONLY ABOUT 12% OF AMERICANS ARE METABOLICALLY HEALTHY.

THERE IS A REAL OPPORTUNITY TO RECLAIM OUR HEALTH.

THAT'S WHY I WROTE THE BOOK.

>> HOW MUCH OF THE POPULATION IS SUFFERING IN THESE DIFFERENT WAYS.

STATISTICS SAY WE ARE TALKING AS OF 2023 40% OF AMERICAN ADULTS OVER THE AGE OF 20 ARE CONSIDERED OBESE.

HOW DID WE GET TO THIS POINT.

IS IT THE FACT THAT ULTRA PROCESSED FOODS HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED?

HOW LONG THEY HAVE BEEN THERE?

HOW EXCEPTED THEY ARE?

>> LET'S UNDERSTAND ONE THING.

IT'S NOT ABOUT WEIGHT.

IT'S NOT HOW BIG OR SMALL YOU ARE.

TO ME IT IS ABOUT HEALTH.

THE QUESTION IS REALLY ABOUT TOXIC FAT.

IT'S THE FAT IN THE MIDSECTION THAT GETS INTO OUR LIVER, OUR PANCREAS, LAYERS OF OUR HEART THAT CAUSE MANY OF THE CHRONIC DISEASES.

CARDIAC, KIDNEY, ANABOLIC, CERTAIN FORMS OF CANCER AND POSSIBLY EVEN NEURODEGENERATIVE.

>> CAN YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MEDICALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THAT KIND OF BELLY FAT OR VISCERAL FAT WHATEVER IT IS CALLED.

WHAT IS IT ACTUALLY DOING?

HOW IS IT ACTIVELY WORKING AGAINST MY HEALTH MORE THAN JUST THE FACT THAT I HAVE A FEW POUNDS OVERALL SPREAD OUT FROM MY BODY.

WHAT IS THE DANGER OF IT BEING RIGHT HERE IN MY MID SECTION?

>> THIS MIDSECTION FAT AS HE JUST REFERRED TO, THIS TOXIC FAT IS DIFFERENT THAN SOME OF THE FAT UNDER OUR SKIN AND ARMS AND IN OUR LEGS.

THIS FAT, THESE FAT CELLS HAVE A HARD TIME, BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF CALORIES WE ARE TAKING IN, HOLDING ON TO THE FATS, THEY LEAK THESE MOLECULES.

THEY LEAK CERTAIN PRO- INFLAMMATORY MOLECULES.

THOSE MOLECULES AND THAT FAT ARE GETTING INTO OUR VITAL ORGANS.

DOCTORS WEATHER CARDIOLOGIST, NEPHROLOGIST, WE ARE ALL WAKING UP TO THE FACT THAT THIS TOXIC FAT GETTING INTO OUR VITAL ORGANS, OUR ORGANS ARE BATHED IN THIS INFLAMMATORY SOUP THAT THESE CELLS ARE LEAKING OUT.

IT IS REALLY CAUSING METABOLIC CHAOS IN OUR BODIES.

THIS BEER BELLY WE ALWAYS BECAME PART OF THE CULTURE, THOUGHT IT WAS COOL, MEN WERE STRONG.

IT IS REALLY KILLING US.

>> IF YOU LOOK AT THIS AS AN ADDICTIVE SET OF SUBSTANCES THAT ARE CAUSING THE WORST OF THIS MIDSECTION AND TOXIC FAT, SHOULD WE BE LOOKING AT THIS AS SOMETHING THAT IS ABLE TO CHANGE OUR BRAIN CHEMISTRY?

>> I THINK WE CAN ALL RELATE TO THE EXPERIENCE.

FOOD IS VERY POWERFUL.

WHETHER IT IS NEUROCHEMISTRY OR THE NEURAL CIRCUITS.

I THINK WE NEED TO RETHINK HOW WE TALK ABOUT ADDICTION.

ADDICTION WAS ALWAYS SOMETHING, THE WEEK, THE DOWNTRODDEN.

THESE ADDICTIVE CIRCUITS ARE PART OF ALL OF US.

THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO OUR BRAINS EVOLVED TO DEAL WITH AN ENVIRONMENT OF SCARCITY.

THE BRAINS THAT CAN FOCUS OUR ATTENTION ON FINDING THIS ENERGY DENSE FOOD IN AN ENVIRONMENT OF SCARCITY, THAT WAS GREAT FOR SURVIVAL.

IT IS NOT THAT OUR BRAINS TODAY ARE NOT WORKING WELL OR SOMETHING IS BROKEN.

THEY ARE WORKING ONLY TOO WELL BECAUSE WE HAVE CHANGED THIS FOOD ENVIRONMENT TO PUT THESE ENERGY DENSE FOODS, 24/7 WE ARE EXPOSED TO IT.

THERE ARE CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF ADDICTION.

THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED Q -INDUCED WANTING.

IT COULD BE THE TIME OF DAY, IT COULD BE PASSED A CERTAIN STORE, I WASN'T EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT MY BRAIN UNCONSCIOUSLY GETS A Q BASED ON PAST LEARNING AND PAST MEMORY IT STIMULATES THIS WANTING.

ALL OF A SUDDEN I HAVE THOUGHTS, MAYBE I SHOULD GO TO THAT STORE, MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE THAT FOOD.

UNTIL YOU CONSUME IT THOSE THOUGHTS STAY WITH YOU.

IF YOU HAVE THE FOOD AVAILABLE 24/7 YOU DON'T EVEN FEEL THE PULL.

WHEN YOU TRY TO RESIST, I WOULD ALWAYS LOSE WEIGHT.

I GAINED AND LOST MY BODY WEIGHT MULTIPLE TIMES.

I WOULD LOSE THE WEIGHT.

I WAS DONE.

I THOUGHT AND I WOULD ALWAYS GAIN IT BACK.

ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT ADDICTION, WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH FOOD IT IS REALLY ABOUT REGAINING FOOD.

YES THERE IS METABOLIC ADAPTATION, BUT THE REWARD CIRCUITS ARE JUST OUT OF ALL OF US.

>> SO IT IS AN ADDICT OF SUBSTANCE AND ENGINEERED TO BE MORE SO.

WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE GOVERNMENT.

SHOULD THIS INDUSTRY BE REGULATED MORE CLOSELY?

WE ARE DOING IT FOR ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO.

>> I HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING PART OF THE TEAM, AS YOU SAID, DID THE INVESTIGATION INTO TOBACCO.

NO DOUBT, THERE ARE CERTAIN TOOLS THE GOVERNMENT HAS THAT CAN CHANGE OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THESE ADDICTIVE SUBSTANCES.

WHAT REALLY WORKED IN TOBACCO, IT WAS ONE OF THE GREAT PUBLIC HEALTH SUCCESSES OVER THE LAST HUNDRED YEARS, THE TURN OF THE PREVIOUS CENTURIES WITH THE TOBACCO COMPANIES DID WAS HIRED PSYCHOANALYST TO COME UP WITH THE PHRASE, SYMBOLS OF LIBERTY, TORCHES OF FREEDOM.

THE MARCH DOWN FIFTH AVENUE FOR EMANCIPATION.

THEY MADE CIGARETTES INTO SOMETHING SEXY AND GLAMOUR SOME.

THEY MADE IT POSITIVELY VALENCE.

YOU WANT TO.

WHAT DID WE DO OVER THE LAST 50, 75 YEARS?

WE CHANGE THE VALENCE.

THERE WAS A CRITICAL PERCEPTUAL SHIFT FROM SOMETHING I WANTED THAT WAS MY FRIEND TO SOMETHING I DID NOT WANT.

IT WAS A DEADLY, DISGUSTING PRODUCT THAT WAS MY ENEMY.

SO HOW WE PERCEIVE THESE FOODS.

ARE THEY REALLY SATISFYING?

WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO MY BODY?

I THINK, YES.

THERE'S GOVERNMENT TOOLS YOU CAN USE BUT YOU REALLY HAVE TO CHANGE HOW WE SEE THESE FOODS.

>> LET'S TURN THE CONVERSATION TO GLP-1 DRUGS.

YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL JOURNEY WITH THESE DRUGS.

HOW DO THEY WORK AND WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THEM?

>> WHAT THEY DO IS THEY DELAY GASTRIC EMPTYING.

THAT JUST SAYS THAT FOOD STAYS IN YOUR STOMACH LONGER.

WE ALL HAVE EXPERIENCED THAT.

WE GET THE FLU.

THE G. I. TRACT DOES NOT MOVE AS MUCH.

FOOD STAYS IN THE STOMACH AND HOW DO YOU FEEL?

YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT ANYTHING ELSE IN YOUR STOMACH.

THERE IS THIS SPECTRUM.

IT'S THE RESULT OF BOTH THE G. I. TRACT AND PART OF THE BRAIN.

YOU KNOW THAT CONTINUUM.

I FEEL SATISFIED, I FEEL FULL.

THEN THERE IS THIS THANKSGIVING FULLNESS.

EVERYBODY PERCEIVES THESE DIFFERENTLY.

FOR ME THEY TOOK ME TO THE EDGE OF NAUSEA.

WHAT IS STRONG ENOUGH TO OVERCOME THE ADDICTIVE EDGE OF CIRCUITS.

THERE IS ANOTHER SET CALLED THE AVERSE IT.

WHEN WE FEEL ILL.

WHEN THE FIRST PRECURSORS WERE GIVEN TO ANIMALS THEY DID NOT MOVE.

SCIENTISTS COINED THE TERM VISCERAL MALLETT'S.

THE GREAT THING ABOUT THESE DRUGS BECAUSE OF THE DOSE THEY CAN PUSH YOU ALONG THAT CONTINUUM.

THE FULLNESS.

SOME PEOPLE CANNOT TOLERATE THESE DRUGS BECAUSE THEY PUSH THEM OVER INTO OUTRIGHT NAUSEA.

THOSE FEELINGS ARE STRONG ENOUGH TO OVERCOME THE REWARD CIRCUITS.

THE PROBLEM IS THESE DRUGS ONLY WORK WHILE YOU ARE ON THEM.

THE LATEST DATA THAT I SAW IS THE AVERAGE PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY IS ON THEM FOR EIGHT OR NINE MONTHS.

YOU GO OFF THEM AND THEY STOP WORKING.

THE PREMISE IS THAT YOU WILL BE ON IT FOR YOUR LIFE.

I THINK THE FDA AND THE COMPANIES HAVE TO STUDY HOW WE CAN EFFECTIVELY USE THESE DRUGS IN THE REAL WORLD.

>> YOU ARE DESCRIBING A COUPLE DIFFERENT PROCESSES.

ONE IS PHYSIOLOGICAL.

THERE'S MORE FOOD IN MY STOMACH.

I FEEL FULL.

THE OTHER WHAT IS INTERESTING TO ME IS THIS IDEA OF FOOD NOISE.

DECREASING YOUR INTEREST IN GOING AFTER ALL FOODS INCLUDING THE HYPER ADDICTIVE ONES.

I WONDER, WHEN YOU GOT OFF THE DRUGS STATE THAT FOOD NOISE INCREASE?

>> YOU SAID IT VERY WELL.

THAT FOOD NOISE IS THE RESULT OF THOSE REWARD CIRCUITS.

THOSE ADDICTIVE CIRCUITS.

THAT YOU INDUCED WANTING.

GOING OFF IN MY HEAD THAT MY REWARD CIRCUITS ARE BEING TRIGGERED.

THOSE CIRCUITS, THE EDGE OF NAUSEA THAT I FELT THAT COUNTERBALANCED THOSE ADDICTIVE CIRCUITS, THAT WORKS WHEN YOU ARE ON THESE DRUGS.

THEY WILL WORK FOR A WHILE AFTER YOU GO OFF OF THEM, BUT AT A CERTAIN POINT IT IS HIGHLY VARIABLE.

EVERY INDIVIDUAL HAS THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES.

FOR ME, IT WORKED FOR A WHILE, BUT WHAT I FOUND AND WHAT I TRIED TO DO WAS CHANGE MY RELATIONSHIP WITH FOOD WHILE I'M ON THAT AND TRY TO HAVE THAT SORT OF CONDITION ME IN A WAY TO BE ABLE TO CARRYOVER.

I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO CO- LEAD OPERATION WARP SPEED DURING THE PANDEMIC.

I WORKED 18 HOUR DAYS.

I WAS SITTING THERE WITH MY COMPUTER.

IT WAS SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.

I TURNED AROUND AND I WAS 40 POUNDS HEAVIER AFTERWARDS.

I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

THESE DRUGS ARE NOT A PANACEA.

THERE IS NO MAGIC PILL.

THEY ARE ONE TOOL.

YOU NEED TO TAKE THEM.

YOU CANNOT EXPECT TO DEAL WITH THESE EXIT OF --ADDICTIVE CIRCUITS BY YOURSELF.

YOU NEED A TEAM, YOU NEED A GOOD PHYSICIAN, A DIETITIAN.

YOU NEED PEOPLE WHO CAN HELP YOU TO CHANGE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH FOOD.

THE DRUGS ARE ONE TOOL, BUT ONLY ONE TOOL.

>> WE ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT THESE DRUGS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I DEFINITELY POINT OUT IS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE ACCESS TO THEM, BUT IT IS VERY UNEQUAL ACCESS.

FOR MOST PEOPLE THEIR INSURANCE DOES NOT COVER GLP-1 DRUGS.

IT MIGHT COVER IT FOR DIABETES BUT IT MIGHT NOT FOR WEIGHT LOSS.

>> THIS IS NOT ABOUT WILLPOWER.

THIS IS VERY MUCH A DISEASE PROCESS AT WORK.

IT IS CAUSING TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF HEALTH BILLS THESE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE PAYING.

I THINK ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THE ADMINISTRATION HAS TO DO IS TO AGREE UNDER MEDICARE TO COVER THESE DRUGS.

NOT TO DO THAT IS A FORM OF DISCRIMINATION AGAINST PEOPLE WHO LIVE, WHO STRUGGLE WITH OBESITY.

WE NEED TO PROVIDE ACCESS TO THESE DRUGS.

I CARRY, I WAS CARRYING THREE DIFFERENT INSURANCE POLICIES.

NOT ONE COVERED THESE DRUGS.

OVER $1000.

COULD YOU IMAGINE STRUGGLING WITH YOUR WEIGHT YOUR WHOLE LIFE AND BEING ILL FROM IT, FROM SUFFERING IN THE CARDIAC CONSEQUENCES, THE RENAL CONSEQUENCES, PREDIABETES, DIABETES, A NUMBER OF OTHER COMPLICATIONS.

A DRUG COMES ALONG AND IT CAN HELP YOU AND YOU CANNOT HAVE ACCESS TO THAT DRUG?

IT JUST SHOWS YOU HOW BROKEN THE AMERICAN HEALTH SYSTEM IS.

THEY PRICE THESE DRUGS EXORBITANTLY.

THERE IS A THING IN THE FOOD AND DRUG LAWS, THIS LOOPHOLE THAT ALLOWS COMPOUNDED DRUGS TO BE MADE.

THESE ARE DRUGS THAT, NOT COMING FROM THE MANUFACTURERS.

THE SOURCE OF THESE DRUGS PROBABLY COMING FROM CHINA.

IT IS HARD TO EVEN KNOW WHERE THEY ARE BEING MADE.

THE FDA HAS NOT DONE TESTING TO ENSURE THE TASTE --SAFETY.

BECAUSE THEY ARE PRICED SO HIGH PEOPLE HAVE TO RESORT TO DRUGS THAT THEY COULD NOT ASSURE THE SAFETY OF.

NOW THE COMPANIES ARE LOWERING THEIR PRICES TO COMPETE WITH THESE.

THAT JUST SHOWS YOU HOW BROKEN THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IS.

>> IS THERE SOMETHING WHERE WE CAN COLLECTIVELY FIGURE OUT HOW TO INCREASE ACCESS TO THIS CATEGORY OF DRUGS WHILE AT THE SAME TIME EQUIPPING PEOPLE, REPAIRING PEOPLE FOR A WAY FOR THEM TO SAY, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE MANUFACTURER SAYS YOU NEED TO BE ON THIS DRUG FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE BUT OUR GOAL IS NOT TO HAVE YOU ON THIS DRUG FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

I WANT YOU TO FIGURE OUT, LET'S GET YOU BACK TO A HEALTHY LEVEL AND HOPEFULLY BETWEEN NOW AND THAT POINT YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH FOOD.

>> YOU SAID IT WONDERFULLY.

THAT IS THE GOAL.

THERE IS NO ENDGAME RIGHT NOW.

YOU AND I ARE NOT GOING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THE DATA TO USE THESE DRUGS, THE RIGHT DOSE.

NOW WHEN CAN I GO BACK, WILL IT CONTINUE TO WORK, THOSE ARE QUESTIONS THAT THE DRUG COMPANY WITH THE REGULATORY BODIES NEED TO FIGURE OUT.

THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS AND RECLAIM OUR HEALTH AND GET A TEAM, ACCESS IS A VERY KEY ISSUE.

YOU CANNOT DEAL WITH AN ADDICTIVE SUBSTANCE ALONE.

YOU NEED DOCTORS AND NUTRITIONISTS, THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

WE JUST HAVE TO WANT TO RECLAIM OUR HEALTH AND UNDERSTAND THERE IS NO ENDGAME.

>> DR. DAVID KESSLER.

THE NEW BOOK IS CALLED DIET, DRUGS, AND DOPAMINE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

> >> AND FINALLY, JUBILATION FOR MANY IN SOUTH KOREA.

SUPPORTERS ARE CELEBRATING WITH EXIT POLLS PROJECTING HE IS SET TO BECOME THE NEXT PRESIDENT.

VOTER TURNOUT REACHED ALMOST 80% WITH MILLIONS CASTING THEIR BALLOTS.

WITH THESE STICKERS GOING VIRAL ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

THAT COMES EXACTLY 6 MONTHS AFTER THE NEW OUSTED LEADER IMPOSED MARTIAL LAW LEADING TO POLITICAL CHAOS.

BE SURE TO TUNE IN TOMORROW WHERE WE WILL HAVE MORE ANALYSIS ON THIS BIG MOMENT FROM KOREAN DEMOCRACY.

> >> THAT IS IT FOR THE PROGRAM TONIGHT.

SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

> >> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS FAMILY CHARITABLE TRUST, MARK J. BLECHNER, THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, SETON J. MELVIN, PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.