
How Trump's funding clawback was a test case for future cuts
Clip: 7/18/2025 | 6m 20sVideo has Closed Captions
How Trump's funding clawback was a test case for future cuts
Republicans in Congress handed President Trump a win by passing his rescissions request to claw back $9 billion in already approved spending. That includes funding for foreign aid and public broadcasting. The panel discusses what comes next from the administration.
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Major funding for “Washington Week with The Atlantic” is provided by Consumer Cellular, Otsuka, Kaiser Permanente, the Yuen Foundation, and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

How Trump's funding clawback was a test case for future cuts
Clip: 7/18/2025 | 6m 20sVideo has Closed Captions
Republicans in Congress handed President Trump a win by passing his rescissions request to claw back $9 billion in already approved spending. That includes funding for foreign aid and public broadcasting. The panel discusses what comes next from the administration.
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
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Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorshipJEFFREY GOLDBERG: Remember way back when Donald Trump argued that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, and remember not so way back when Trump told us the Democrats and the deep state stole the 2020 election?
Perhaps the lesson this week is live by conspiracy theories, die by conspiracy theories.
Far be it for me to suggest that Trump is in political trouble, he is after all one of the luckiest men in the history of American politics, but this has been a stressful week in MAGA land.
It is also undoubtedly stressful and letús not forget this important point for the actual victims of Jeffrey Epsteinús terrible crimes.
Tonight, weúll talk about the relationship between Trump and Epstein and about the consequences of this very strange episode.
Joining me tonight at the table, Leigh Ann Caldwell, the chief Washington correspondent at Puck, Stephen Hayes is the editor of The Dispatch, Meredith McGraw is a White House reporter for The Wall Street Journal, and Michael Shearer is a White House correspondent for The Atlantic.
Thank you all for joining me tonight.
Before we get to this weekús weird main event, I want to just talk for a minute about something that just happened in Congress.
Congress has voted, narrowly voted, to claw back money that it had already budgeted for foreign aid, but for our purposes, I want to talk about something that directly affects us, the Corporation of Public Broadcasting, which provides funds for NPR and PBS, including this member station, WETA.
And I wanted to start by just asking Leigh Ann how this all.
happened and why it happened.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, Chief Washington Correspondent, Puck: So, the administration, of course, has been saying that they want to shrink the size of government, get rid of waste, fraud, and abuse.
Another interpretation of what they want to do is actually just remake the country in their view, in their eyes.
They -- JEFFREY GOLDBERG: A little project.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: A little project, which theyúre actually becoming quite successful at with all the things that they are doing.
JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Right.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: So, they picked the lowest hanging fruit, the things that are least controversial to try to claw back funding that Congress has already appropriated, just $9 billion.
That is a fraction of the amount of money that Congress spends and the government spends every year.
JEFFREY GOLDBERG: By the way, just for everybodyús clarity, only a billion of that was for public broadcasting.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: Correct.
Most of the rest of it was for foreign aid and for programs overseas.
And so Republicans agreed to do it even though many Republicans were quite uncomfortable with it.
Even very rural Republicans had some concerns about some of their rural constituencies not having access to emergency broadcast alert systems that come through PBS and NPR and some of the local entertainment and news information that they get and rely on in some of these rural places.
But Donald Trump demanded it and wanted it, and it passed.
JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Right.
Michael, the rescission process, youúre fascinated by it.
I know you are.
Philosophically, I want to ask you all what this means.
From our perspective, you know, obviously weúre in the media and this is quite a historic moment.
But talk about the use of rescission.
MICHAEL SHEARER, Staff Writer, The Atlantic: Yes.
So, itús bad for the corporation, for broadcasting, but what I think will be remembered of this vote is that it was a test case in whether they could change the way the government appropriates money.
Historically, when Republicans control the House and the Senate, you still need 60 votes to get a budget through the Senate, and that means you need a bipartisan process.
In the past, itús meant that thereús been deals where military gets this amount of money and social safety net gets this amount of money.
The Trump administrationús goal here is to break that process and they are doing it by making it a purely partisan process.
Rescission only needs 50 votes if you have the vice president, 51, otherwise.
And so theyúre basically turning the appropriations or threatening to turn the appropriations process into a majority process in the Senate.
And thatús going to really complicate the whole way -- change dramatically the whole way the federal governmentús been budget for years.
For Republicans, you know, Russ Vought was out this week saying, we need a more partisan process.
JEFFREY GOLDBERG: The head of the OMB.
MICHAEL SHEARER: Yes, the head of the -- JEFFREY GOLDBERG: The chief budget officer of the government.
MICHAEL SHEARER: Their dream is that they, when they control the House and the Senate, that means theyúll control how all the purse strings are set.
Theyúll basically be able to cut Democrats out the process.
We donút know if itús going to get there, but that was a big step they took this week.
JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Steve, I have to ask the obvious question, which is, what happens if they ever lose majority power?
Do they then -- will they complain that the Democrats are using the same burn it all to the ground methodology that weúre seeing right now?
STEPHEN HAYES, Editor, The Dispatch: Yes, undoubtedly.
I mean, I donút think they operate -- JEFFREY GOLDBERG: But theyúre not planning for a Democrat -- STEPHEN HAYES: They donút operate -- no, I think from the perspective of most Republicans in both the Senate and the House, they think Democrats have been doing this all along.
Democrats have been partisan.
Theyúve been maneuvering, theyúve been manipulating government in their favor for decades, and now itús our time as Republicans, as conservatives to come back and give them a little taste of their own medicine and not be so timid in taking the fight to Democrats on these issues.
I think the challenge for Republicans is, at some point, they wonút be in power anymore and they will have to deal with this.
And what will be their arguments?
I mean, their small government arguments, I think, fall on deaf ears.
That Republicans have been arguing to cut funding for public broadcasting, I think, with justification for decades.
But as Leigh Ann says, you know, youúre talking about a billion dollars when youúre running a $1.3 trillion deficit.
I would say cut everything you can cut.
We need to lower the $1.3 trillion deficit.
But they canút really make credible small government arguments to do these things.
JEFFREY GOLDBERG: I just want you to note for the -- I want to note for the record that if you continue your opposition to CPB funding, Iúm taking away that mug.
STEPHEN HAYES: I mean, I should say -- JEFFREY GOLDBERG: No more -- STEPHEN HAYES: Iúve held these views consistently for three decades, including the years that my wife worked for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, but you can imagine led to some funny conversations around the kitchen table, yes.
Trump enraged by MAGA’s Epstein backlash
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Clip: 7/18/2025 | 17m 40s | Trump enraged by MAGA’s Epstein backlash (17m 40s)
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