
Charles Duhigg joins Amna Nawaz for our ‘Settle In’ podcast
Clip: 1/16/2026 | 5m 57sVideo has Closed Captions
Author Charles Duhigg joins Amna Nawaz for our ‘Settle In’ podcast
We’re just over two weeks into 2026 and, for many of us, our New Year’s resolutions have probably started to fall by the wayside. For our podcast “Settle In,” Amna Nawaz spoke with Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author Charles Duhigg about the science of making new habits stick.
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Major corporate funding for the PBS News Hour is provided by BDO, BNSF, Consumer Cellular, American Cruise Lines, and Raymond James. Funding for the PBS NewsHour Weekend is provided by...

Charles Duhigg joins Amna Nawaz for our ‘Settle In’ podcast
Clip: 1/16/2026 | 5m 57sVideo has Closed Captions
We’re just over two weeks into 2026 and, for many of us, our New Year’s resolutions have probably started to fall by the wayside. For our podcast “Settle In,” Amna Nawaz spoke with Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author Charles Duhigg about the science of making new habits stick.
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Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorshipAMNA NAWAZ: Well, we're just over two# weeks into 2026, and for many of you,## many of us, New Year's resolutions have# probably started to fall by the wayside.
For our video podcast "Settle In,"# I spoke with Pulitzer Prize-winning## journalist and author Charles Duhigg about# the science of making new habits stick.
Here now is part of our conversation about# his bestselling book "The Power of Habit."
So when you were researching it and writing# it, you wanted to change your habits of, what,## exercising every morning, resisting that# doughnut?
Were you able to?
Did it work?
CHARLES DUHIGG, Author, "The Power of# Habit": Absolutely.
Absolutely, yes.
And to explain how, I should# explain the most fundamental## thing that I learned when I was# talking to experts, which is... AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.
CHARLES DUHIGG: ... when we think about a habit, we tend to think of it as one thing, right?# There's this behav.. But, actually, if we look at how a habit exists# inside our brains, what we see is that every habit## is made up of three parts.
There's a cue, which is# like a trigger for an automatic behavior to start.## And then there's a routine, the behavior# itself, what we think of as the habit.
And then, finally, there's a reward.
Every habit# you have in your life delivers a reward to you,## whether you're aware of it or not.
And# a lot of our life is actually habits.
A researcher named Wendy Wood studied how# much of what we do every day is a conscious## decision and how much is a habit.
She# found that 40 to 45 percent of what## we do every day is a habit.
It's# essentially our brain saying, oh,## there's a cue and I'm going to do this automatic# routine.
I'm not even going to think about it.
I'm going to make it almost feel like it's## effortless.
And then there's going to# be some reward that's delivered to me,## whether I'm aware of that reward or not.# And the reason why this is important... AMNA NAWAZ: Forty-five percent?
That's incredible.
CHARLES DUHIGG: Forty-.. AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.
CHARLES DUHIGG: And the re.. if you can identify the cues and# rewards that shape your behaviors,## then you can change your# habits much more easily, right?
It's those cues and those rewards that give# us the leverage point to change how we behave.
AMNA NAWAZ: How do we do that?
CHARLES DUHIGG: There's a saying that we have, I# wa.. because it makes us think that we can# extinguish a behavior very easily.
And the truth is, with willpower, you oftentimes# can extinguish a behavior for a while, but that## cue routine reward in your brain, that habit# loop, it'll always exist.
So the best thing to## do is instead of saying, I want to extinguish# a habit, is to say, I want to change a habit.
So how do we do that?
The first thing# we do is, we have to figure out what is## the cue and the reward that is prompting# this behavior?
So a good example is that,## when I was working at The New York# Times and I was working on this book,## every afternoon, I would go up and I# would eat a cookie in the cafeteria.
And I started putting on a little bit# of weight.
So I put these notes on my## computer that say, no cookies today.
And somehow,## every afternoon, I would manage to ignore# that note and go up and get the cookie.
(LAUGHTER) CHARLES DUHIGG: .. if you want to change this habit, first# you got to figure out what the cue is.
AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.
CHARLES DUHIGG: .. either a time of day, a particular place,# the presence of certain other people,## a specific emotion, or a preceding# behavior that's become ritualized.
And they said, OK, whenever# you have the cookie urge,## just write down those five things.
What# time is it?
Who's standing near you?
Where## are you?
And I realized pretty quickly,# it always hit between like 3:15 and 3:45## in the afternoon.
It was clearly a time# of day was the cue for my cookie habit.
Then I had to figure out what the reward# was.
And I told the researchers, I was like,## oh, this is easy.
The reward's the# cookie.
Like, I love eating cookies.
AMNA NAWAZ: Clearly, right?
Yes.
CHARLES DUHIGG: Yes.
And they.. is like a bundle of like a dozen different# rewards all in one tasty package.
So, is... AMNA NAWAZ: What?
Explain that to me?
CHARLES DUHIGG: Well, so is the# reward for me eating the cook.. is it that -- the sugar, like the# sugar gives me a burst of energy?
AMNA NAWAZ: Oh, yes.
CHARLES DUHIGG: Or is it just the# taste of the.. And so they said, look, next time you# go up, instead of getting a cookie,## to see if it's the sugar, take# some Splenda and just rub it on## your tongue and see if that satisfies the# craving for a cookie.
So I tried that one.
AMNA NAWAZ: Did you do that# in your office break room?
CHARLES DUHIGG: I did it.
I did# it.
I did it.
I did it in my... AMNA NAWAZ: Did anyone see you do this?
(LAUGHTER) CHARLES DUHIGG: .. there?
That's a little weird.
But I told# them it was for science.
So it was OK.
(LAUGHTER) CHARLES DUHIGG: But that didn't work.
I still# wanted the cookie.
So th.. maybe it's the energy I get from the sugar.
So# I drank an espresso, instead of having a cookie.## And I still wanted the cookie.
I experimented with# these different rewards every day, doing different## things to see if it satisfied the craving as well# as a cookie did,until one day I realized when I## went up to the cafeteria to get the cookie,# I would see some friends in the cafeteria.
And I'd go and I'd get my cookie.
And as I# was eating it, I'd go over and I'd talk to## them and we would like gossip for 10 minutes.# And I realized it was the gossip.
It was the## socialization that was the reward for# me.
So I came up with a new habit loop.
What I said is, OK, I want to come up# with a new behavior that corresponds## to the old cue and they deliver something# similar to the old reward.
So I would set## my alarm for 3:30.
When my alarm went off at# 3:30, I would stand up.
I'd look for someone## in the newsroom to go chat with and gossip# with and just have a bit of socialization.
And then I would go over and I would do it.# And for 10 or 15 minutes, I'd talk to them,## and then I'd go back to my desk.
And the cookie# urge totally disappeared, because what... AMNA NAWAZ: After how long?
How# many times did you have to do that?
CHARLES DUHIGG: Really, I mean, it# took like a week, a week-and-a-half.
AMNA NAWAZ: Huh.
CHARLES DUHIGG: .. strong and durable when we're in the grip of# them, but once we pull them into the light,## habits prove to be very, very delicate and we can# change them much more easily than we think we can,## as long as we pay attention to the# cues and rewards driving that behavior.
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